Friday, April 29, 2011

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candidates are demanding specific proposals on education in rural areas




"require a specific look for rural education," remarked, Luisa Pinto, president of Educational Forum, to submit open letter to the candidates for President of the Republic, prepared by Educational Forum, in which candidates are urged to consolidate the decentralization of education to development and equity perspective with concrete proposals.





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"The important thing is not teaching but learning of the students," he said Trahtemberg León, Associate Education Forum, during his presentation at the 2011 CADE education, noting that the evaluation of the quality of education in our country should be measured by the achievements of student learning rather than teacher education.



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estimate that in 52 years will ensure that all primary school children can add, subtract , divide and multiply


you know how long it will take to achieve 100% of children in second grade fail to understand what they read in accordance pace at which we move, it is estimated that some 15 years and for them and they know how to add, subtract, multiply and divide are estimated around 52, so said Martin Vegas, Associate Education Forum during his presentation at CADE education, in which detailed the pending agenda basic education in Peru.



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HIGHLIGHTS HIGHLIGHTS HIGHLIGHTS

We a DOS system in education

"The important thing is not the teaching but the students' learning," remarked Leon Trahtemberg, Associate Education Forum, during his presentation at the 2011 CADE education, noting that the evaluation of the quality of education in our country should be measured by the achievements of student learning rather than teacher education.

During his speech he criticized the role of principals of schools in Peru which means, play a role similar to an assistant keeper, unable to evaluate, hire and fire teachers, unable to change the program, curriculum or plan of hours. "Put the manager of Coca Cola to lead a school in Peru and not become a good school."

regretted that in the name of national unity has been homogenized education respecting cultural diversity without causing a fragmented Peru. "What we tell the children of Cusco is to succeed must be in Lima. What we have done is turn a Lima Peru in a large. "

education expert, said that early education should lead in the first or second grade to avoid the disruption that is for children going from preschool to first grade. "It's amazing that when the child is ready to learn, is to aprestación necessary, you change the school, schedule, system of work and evaluation."

also considered important to think of compensation that includes a strategy for schools in poor areas, because these have other needs. "You can not require a child who has never attended preschool or had no stimulation, he makes like a child who has been kicked, and when they fail, the system los castiga sin ayudarlos. La igualdad para los pobres en el Perú se trata de que se comporten como de clase media”.

Trahtemberg, exhortó al gobierno atender los problemas visuales y auditivos de niños en edad escolar, ya que según indicó son los responsables de no permitir el aprendiza del 20% de niños y niñas con oportunidades de aprender. “Es necesario realizar un descarte de los problemas visuales y auditivos, pero ¿Quién los hace?”.

También sostuvo, que entre las competencias que todos los docentes deberían destacar en sus alumnos seria desarrollar la capacidad de aprender a trabajar en equipo. “La escuela sanciona el trabajo en equipo. A los niños are required before a test or a project that developed individually, however the society asks teamwork. "

stressed the importance of psychologists in schools, to strengthen the educational support should be given to students to provide comprehensive training that takes account of emotional development.

emphasized that the State should use the successful experiences of learning as the Fe y Alegría schools, providing them with more teachers to have more schools and thus more well-trained students.

The role of employers

"You have to wonder if the role private enterprise as part of their social responsibility to replace the state in what to do and not do, such as investing in infrastructure and school furniture. Companies should commit to projects that will allow Peru to be at the forefront and innovation worldwide, "said Trahtemberg to indicate that innovators are not ministry but the leading institutions through major project.

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estimate that in 52 years will ensure that all primary school children can add, subtract, divide and multiply


you know how long it will take to achieve 100% of children in second grade fail to understand what they read in accordance pace at which we move, it is estimated that some 15 years, and that and they know they add, subtract, multiply and divide are estimated around 52, so said Martin Vegas, Associate Education Forum during his presentation at CADE education, in which detailed the pending agenda in basic education Peru.

As detailed, attention to early childhood education, education in rural areas and intercultural Bilingual in-service teacher training, curricula and a decentralized regional focus in the regions and schools, are the 6 tracks that make up the unfinished agenda in education, developed by various institutions in agreement with the regions of our country.


Regarding Early Childhood Early Childhood Vegas, explained that you need to configure a "basic package contextualized teaching each region" with qualified teachers who have classrooms, furniture and kitchen upgraded and educational materials focused on promoting creative potential of children from 3 to 5 years. He noted that targeted programs are needed for mothers with children under 3 years to promote growth, independence and socialization of children.


Education in rural areas "Rural schools have no toilets, no electricity, no furniture, and in many cases, housing for teachers," said Martin Vegas, highlighting the need for decent rural schools, including housing teachers can overcome the problems of teacher absenteeism, promoting a school calendar set to production cycles, a minimum of two teachers in each school and teaching strategies to address diversity multigrade. Bilingual Intercultural Education

(EIB)
"That children learn in the language of their parents have formed is a fundamental issue," remarked the specialist, noting the lack of specialized teacher training in IBE, and the absence of a pedagogical approach that incorporates community knowledge and production of relevant texts.

in-service teacher training
Martín Vegas, said the crisis in teaching, does not go through a training issue but with internship teaching support between schools with high and low income groups and shared learning. "It's important to be a core of trainers in the regions looking for the best teachers who know how things right. " Regional Resumes


"Children are not like learning about the potential of local development and production in which they will operate," said Martín Vegas, emphasizing the need to diversify the curriculum and pass the priority that has been given exclusive reading and math does not allow to expand their talents. Also urged to promote learning progress maps as a tool for teachers to know the needs of each child. Decentralized


regard to decentralized management, Vegas, made a call for a re-engineering of the Ministry of Education as a body rector, saying goodbye to the implementation of educational activities that belongs to the regions. "Education is only going to walk in a decentralized manner, it is feasible that the MINEDU handle 7 million 300 thousand students and teachers."

Finally, they indicated that the major challenge at this stage will be to find a practical consensus. "Citizen action is essential to push the issue so there will be the counterpart of the political decision," he said.

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candidates are demanding specific proposals on education in rural areas

"require a specific look for rural education," remarked, Luisa Pinto, president of Educational Forum, to submit open letter to the candidates for President of the Republic, prepared by Educational Forum, in which, calls for candidates to strengthen the decentralization of education to development and equity perspective with concrete proposals.

Speaking to the radio program HABLAEDUCACIÓN considered that very little was raised in the government's plans regarding education, "the proposals are general and do not address the specific characteristics of the complicated landscape of our country", a clear example is that there are proposals for a new management model of how to deal with one teacher and multigrade schools with budgets that do not cover the basics.

Similarly, expressed the need to think in a rural school teacher, that manages the dialogue between the ideas of Western culture and indigenous cultures. "A teacher who respect and dialogue with the local culture that draws on the diversity and that is sitting on a global vision of the territory."

"It is urgent that there is an understanding of a diverse country, where it is understood that homogeneity programs do not work, but you have specific proposals. We need a social model that responds to cultural diversity not only in academics but political participation of indigenous peoples, "said Luisa Pinto.

The education specialist, stressed the important to reflect on what the quality of education, as he said, has now paid attention to certain areas such as reading comprehension, leaving out key issues and competencies that influence the development Integral people.

Finally he said, that the document prepared, it requests the next government to ensure quality public education state, priority attention children in all their needs, develop a rural education policy and to make teaching a profession of high level. Read

Open Letter

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INSTITUTIONAL HIGHLIGHTS

Present progress of the study on gender disparities in the timely completion secondary to the Red Blossom



While at 25.8% nationwide high school students conclude in a timely manner without major difference between genders, there are areas in the province of Victor Fajardo, Ayacucho, where, for every 100 males who second only appropriately ends 50 women make it, as reported by the researcher Nilton Silva, at the Red Blossom to present the progress of the study "Gender Equity Indicators for the construction of a Strategic Programme Budget."



During the meeting, Ana Maria Robles, Education Program Coordinator of CARE, said that the study seeks to show evidence of the lack of equal access to secondary education, both for women who manage to enter the educational system as they do not.
also addressed the need to disseminate the report of the progress of the implementation of Law 27558, Law 27558 of "Promoting Education for Rural Girls", where it is shown that after 9 years of its enactment, the rule has not yet been implemented.



It
india, that among the measures promoted by the Act is prioritizing resources and actions to increase the coverage of bilingual intercultural education, the timely completion of primary and secondary education of girls and adolescents, and leadership of those in science and technology.



Similarly, includes actions to prevent abuse and mistreatment girls and the need for appropriate sex education.



Finally, Rita Carrillo, Coordinator of Online Education in Rural Education Forum, presented the Open Letter to Presidential Candidates, published by Educational Forum, in which candidates are urged to consolidate the decentralization of education to development and equity perspective with concrete proposals.

Several organizations present expressed interest in joining the initiative, which is next ask the government to ensure a quality public education statewide, prioritizing the care of children in all their needs, develop a rural education policy and to make teaching a profession of high level.

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increasing understanding
Published in the El Peruano

Teacher training, evaluation in their mastery of reading, the reader's own development plan and national mobilization reading comprehension with text-sharing projects, and implementation of reading libraries are some of the measures implemented by the Ministry of Education and reflected in the increase achieved by students in reading comprehension during 2010, relation to the previous year.

According to Vice Minister of Educational Management, Idel Vexler, in this hopeful outcome expected and also outlines the work and commitment of teachers, parents, principals and students.
"In addition to the work of state and ministry, developed projects to improve reading society entities including NGOs, international aid agencies and private, why these achievements belong to all."
In this regard, stresses that the reason for the substantive and significant improvement in learning is the work that began in 2004 and continued during the tenure of Minister José Antonio Chang, to today. Percentages


Recently, the holder of the sector, Victor Raul Diaz Chavez, referring to the Student Census Evaluation (ECE) 2010, revealed that more than 28% of the school's second grade reached the expected level of reading comprehension and 13.8% did so in math. They surpassed the previous year's figure by 5.6% and 0.3% respectively. Vexler
expresses the importance of the next government to consider the achievements in this sector and improve the continuity of teacher policies, pedagogical and curricular evaluation.
"No need to change the curriculum and set aside the Public Career Teaching and training. The assessments can be improved, but in a context of continuity.
Vice argues that there are 14 regions that exceeded the planned target of 24%, including Arequipa, Ica, Moquegua, Tacna and Lima, and surpass the target for 2011 . These jurisdictions are closer to the international target of average First World countries.
But there is still hard work to do in reading comprehension in rural areas, especially in the Amazon and Andean regions. "In Loreto, Huancavelica, Huanuco and Ucayali, yet the results are not good, "added the official.
Emphasis

For that reason, considers that achievements serve to emphasize reading comprehension in mathematics education. In this area increased by 7 points from 2007 to 2009 but from 2009 to 2010 the increase was slight, three-tenths.
"As we have improved reading comprehension, we may also in mathematics, because he has put more emphasis", he says. He then states that the achievements will help build self-esteem of the boys, "and that all educational stakeholders and it is possible to improve the quality of education in the country."
The Ministry of Education (Minedu) prepares a national mobilization for the improvement of mathematics teaching in and primary, to leave the next government.
In that document, for example, aims to increase the hours of study in primary, differentiated according develop content with observations on the weaknesses of the students, preparing manual exercises to improve learning in math, "but above all we are requesting money Ministry of Economy and Finance, so that, as was done with the Strategic Learning, we can expand the surveillance and monitoring in rural areas, especially primary schools. "
Thus, suggest the use of one or two free hours available for workshops and other activities to study more mathematics content more focused, having to do with the weaknesses and specific materials. Scores


According to Juan Borea Odría, a member of the National Council of Education is positive progress in reading comprehension.
"Congratulations to achieve and the strategies which must surely keep the next government, is a good positive score, but is still insufficient because only a quarter of children are understanding and this is worrying." CNE
member states that training, delivery of books and keep the search for school hours activities are positive and should be maintained.
"I suggest reorient the curriculum to give more time to reading and writing and trying to make a qualitative leap, while maintaining the policy of handing over school textbooks. "
It notes that there is greater concern to reduce the gap between urban and rural," which is old, but still exists ".

" There are regions, including Moquegua, Arequipa, Lima Metropolitan advance, on average, and others like Loreto and Huancavelica, which are more linked to the rural areas, where students are quite low in reading comprehension. "

For example, emphasizes Borea, "Loreto only reached 5%. Here, you have to make a payment differential to invest more where performance is more low.
"You have to be weighed, or successful or defeatist, but optimistic and hopeful work, recognizing the progress achieved, but recognize that much remains to be done," stresses Vexler.

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OPEN FORUM FORUM FORUM

Assessment students: Can we go? Published OtraMirada


The Ministry of Education (MED) released the results of the Census Evaluation of Students (ECE 2009-2010) conducted late last year. This assessment is qualified educational achievement of the following levels.

* Yes achieve the expected learning (Level 2)
* No learning achieved Expected (Level 1)
* not achieve the expected learning, do not answer the easiest questions of the test. (Level \u0026lt;1)

Professor Siegfried Chiroque analyzed the most relevant data of this assessment and came to some conclusions that show below.

in reading and writing, from 2007 to 2010, progress has been made about eleven points in the public sector (from 11.9% in Level 2 is moved to 22.8%). However, this increase in public school when they advertise hides average figures, which include developments in the private sector (33% at Level 2 was passed 48.6%). Further emphasizes that no more than ¾ parts of students at public (77.2%) did not achieve the expected learning in literacy.

In mathematics, from 2007 to 2010, has advanced 5.4% in the public sector (from 6.3% in Tier 2 ran at 11.7%). However, this increase in public school when they advertise hides average figures, which include developments in the private sector (from 11.1% to 20.9%). Also, do not indicate that a 88.3% of students fail the public level the expected learning in mathematics.

The achievement gap between students of public and private sector, including urban students and rural area, widen. Thus, educational poverty decreased more in the private sector student population in the public sector, also decreases more educational poverty in urban students than rural areas.

2010, 88.5% of the students of Educational Institutions with Intercultural and Bilingual Education, simply do not achieve the expected learning. Even worse, the aforementioned percentage, 61.4% are below Level 1. The worst education in the country is between the Andean and Amazonian indigenous populations, ie the poorest and most excluded.

This test has been taken to second grade students primary. Therefore, these results correspond to students who began their primary education during the current government. While we must recognize a slight positive trend evaluated, if it follows the same path, the poor must continue to wait several more decades to deliver a quality educational change.

Finally, the current education policy gives us a different way to bridge the gaps shown in these figures.

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Prospero
Growth Report published in Caretas


About 2 million children work in Peru (INEI, 2009) and early entry to the environment work is one of the most serious consequences of poverty, because it creates lost opportunities for children and represents a violation of their rights. 10 years ago Telefónica Foundation undertook an ambitious international program that would lead to a significant change to this situation. Do the ends? Eradicating child labor, giving children and teenagers the opportunity to receive quality education.

"Proniño" is an international project which benefits over 200 thousand children from 13 countries, which include Argentina, Colombia, El Salvador, Peru-a country that encourages more children, "among others, with the aim of conduct a comprehensive intervention and improving the learning environment beyond the family and social.

initially only offered to students school supplies and uniforms for the entire year, approximately 1500 children had .-. Grew and with the collaboration of NGOs "CESIP", "Land of Children", "Red Titicaca" and so on, was given the insatiable goal of psychoeducational support, awareness workshops, training for teachers, implementing computer labs - 27 to date-developed health-care talks with students and parents, based on the importance of medical insurance, etc.

currently in Peru 38.344 schooling for children from 224 public schools in rural and marginal urban areas such as Arequipa, Ayacucho, Lima, Moquegua, Puno, among others 12. "Everything starts in the time that an NGO evaluates areas where there is child labor. Approach to communities and, according to its criteria, visit schools and present the project. When allowed to enter such an area, identify each child and makes contact with the family to conduct a conversation on the issue of child labor. " "Often parents do not see children as dependents but as partners in survival efforts," said Marco Coronado, director of the project.

What is more, "Proniño" includes "Friendly Schools", the current project whose primary purpose is educational exchanges and student pilot de Perú con otros de escuelas españolas por medio de videoconferencias.

Un monitoreo constante ha confirmado que el 95.7% de los niños beneficiados permanecieron en dicho programa (2009) y que un 15.5% dejó de trabajar e incrementó sus horas de estudio. Con 4 proyectos más bajo la manga, “Educared”, “Voluntariado”, “Debate y conocimiento” y “Arte y tecnología”, Fundación Telefónica cuenta con una meta de inversión para “Proniño” de más de 27 millones de soles para diciembre de este año –beneficiando alrededor de 46,800 niños–, 8 millones más que el año pasado. Y que sigan sumando. (Aileen Perez)

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Fujimori's legacy at the University
For Zeno Depaz
Posted in The First

Last Sunday, a television report aired where college students, consulted on as elementary as what was the year that declared the independence of Peru, or what they mean, or at least what they mean, the letters UN, ONPE or NGOs, were incapable of responding. The same thing happened

When shown a picture of President Valentin Paniagua and ask to recognize the character, and when asked what happened May 1 April 1992, however, that the reporter was busy giving other signs which reveal the answers. The ignorance displayed by these students as the last of the above issues, is quite a paradox, for it was precisely what happened on that date he has done may now have college as those with an alarmingly high level of functional illiteracy.

We were able to warn students where they came from, because the story took place in front of their respective universities: César Vallejo, San Ignacio de Loyola and San Martín de Porres. All of them work under the DL 882, created by the Fujimori regime in 1996. This open standard the possibility that universities have explicit profit. In a country lacking, and, in fact, still lack-of regulatory institutions which guarantee the minimum quality standards in the supply of higher education, this led to what now characterizes most academic institutions of the type 882: education led to the scam, which cost the country are already paying and will continue for many years, even when steps are taken to stop and correct that. Governed

indeed, by the pursuit of profit for the short term, the majority of such universities are in a phase of wild accumulation of capital, wreaking havoc with the academic quality: no academic requirements for access, as this report shows, little or no requirement regarding the assessment of learning (not customers to migrate to another "university" in the same type, total .. there are tens), low or no requirements in terms of education (for programs that are called "remote"); marketing degrees and diplomas, with mechanisms for legalized Fujimori regime itself, and so on. That is the Fujimori legacy at the university. Fujimori established the school automatically, without need for argument. Now the degree of Bachelor of no value unless negative one, since being a condition for access to graduate, is impacting negatively on the quality of the academic level, to which are added mass and postgraduate courses offered by universities in despicable conditions of the type mentioned above.

While such universities were promoted, Fujimori intervened militarily major public universities. Meanwhile the ineffable Keiko and his brothers, ranging from country to study at American universities, with dirty money. We are therefore reported in relation to how much importance granted to the University Fujimorismo Peruvian institution without which we can hardly speak seriously of national development.

Wednesday, April 20, 2011

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OPEN FORUM HIGHLIGHTS HIGHLIGHTS

CANDIDATES FACING WHAT ABOUT EDUCATION?
EDUCATION MUST CHANGE, THE PEOPLE DEMAND, THE COUNTRY NEEDS


OPEN LETTER TO THE CANDIDATES FOR THE PRESIDENCY OF THE REPUBLIC


welcome the democratic opportunity offered by the electoral process under way to bring education in the national political agenda, so that we can clarify the strategies to address the profound educational crisis currently lives, especially in rural areas.

The people have spoken out against social inequalities persist despite economic growth, and large sections of rural and marginal urban, Andean and Amazonian indigenous peoples are still excluded from the main growth without equity.

Peruvian society requires economic stability, development, progress and prosperity for all, an order that serves to resolve conflicts without violence or fighting. This involves learning to respect people and territories, value diversity, recognizing that we are a nation of the blood, where everyone has a place, is recognized in their rights and know their responsibilities, starting with the rulers.

Education is a fundamental human right. Without it there is no equality, harmony, good life, prosperity for people and development of peoples.

need to elect a leader who is committed to strengthening decentralization and equitable development perspective, in order:

- Ensure a quality public education statewide
That, beginning with that given to the poorest, become an example of quality and effectiveness, as well as transparency and good treatment, slowing the growth of a low-quality private education.

- Prioritize the care of children in all their needs
Given the quality of life of children with cross-cutting plans: anemia and eradicating chronic child malnutrition, premature death caused by preventable diseases, ensuring the care and quality educational opportunities to those who have the right from birth, prioritizing and protecting investment necessary to achieve this objective.

- Develop a rural education policy
To ensure basic infrastructure and quality services, including decent housing for teachers. An education that respects and engage with the local culture that draws on the diversity and that is sitting on a global vision of the territory, school and community and at the same time, the National Education Project and the Regional Educational Project.

- Make teaching a profession of high
which is due to renew the teacher training policy, guiding the development of capabilities based on criteria of good professional performance, they require substantial investment to improve quality trainers of teachers, provide consistency and reliability to the Public Educator and make teacher evaluation a tool to improve and not to mistreat.

To meet these commitments need to increase to 6% of GDP investment in education, as well as to the Educational Project National state policy of enforcement. We need to strengthen the decentralization of education and a new management model for rural school. Likewise, respect the agreements, covenants and consensus are achieved in different areas of cooperation with the public.

The State is not simply a provider of rules, inputs and resources, is a guarantor of the rights of citizens, among them the human right to education. We need the candidates to commit to this goal by exposing their policies, plans and funding for quality education for all.


Lima, April 24, 2011 Educational Forum

Friday, April 15, 2011

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candidates are asked to present concrete actions in regard to education and general leave



The Educational Forum partner, Gloria Helfer drew attention to the presidential candidates on the need to address educational issues, as he said during in the second round has been diluted. "The educational issue in the first round was very strong, even spoke of revolution in education without any fear, but in the second round have been forgotten, and we must make remember that if there are commitments to eliminate poverty must address education, health will only education, job opportunities and better living conditions. "


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2010 school census results confirms that we are at the rear of learning


Following the publication of results Census of School Assessment (ECE) 2010, Vice President of the National Council of Education, Hugo Diaz, said that while there are improvements in overall terms 5.6% and 0.3% reading comprehension in mathematics in second grade students at Level 2 considered worrisome, the percentage of students who are below level 1, ie, they can not solve basic exercises, range in the area of \u200b\u200bmathematics to 53% of students.



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next government must give continuity to the educational policies



Vice Pedagogical Management Ministry of Education, Idel Vexler, urged the next government not to make "fresh start" in education, on important issues such as improving teachers' assessment educational policy, school curriculum in primary education coverage, management decentralized education project APROLAB generalization.

Monday, April 11, 2011

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the best way to revive the labor market. First

Finally l @ s "s political prisoners" of our country have found the magic formula for eliminate unemployment and revive the economy of our country through the construction sector, despite the crisis in ... And no, it turns out that the opposite of what you think much @ s has not been for the recent labor reform by the pensionazo or because we find succumbed to the temptation of a bailout (which we @ s, working class, called a mortgage @ pa 'remains) of our European neighbors, the solution was much easier than that, the miracle of the revival of the construction was carried out thanks to the upcoming municipal elections May 22. Indeed as I say incredulous @ s of little faith, is that there is no one place in Spain, and hidden it, which these days is not whether something is inaugurate a building that had been closed months ended but not knowing anyone because an airstrip which still has three months to be operational, metro plans to connect the center of Madrid with the last quarter of Mordor, a medieval castle which paradoxically is not registered anywhere and medieval walls are drywall or even a model of an idea of \u200b\u200bsomething you think you can reach at any time propose any director of a thousand yours you have as an art project one of the hij @ s your sister and / or sibling, any excuse is good for a photo and salir un poco en los medios de comunicación y si puede ser rodeado de personas de las cuales desconoces totalmente su problemática pero parece que eres tu el que la sufre más que ell@s, pues mejor y es que al fin y al cabo incluso con la reforma de la ley electoral estamos ya en plena campaña electoral. Nunca l@s vecin@s de nuestra sociedad han estado tan cerca de la clase política como en estos días en los cuales nuestr@s polític@s nos atienden personalmente preguntándonos e incluso algun@s hay por ahí, novatos seguro, que hasta nos hacen caso, supuestamente. ¿Y todo esto por qué o a cambio de qué? Se preguntarán ustedes, pues todo esto a cambio tan solo de meter en una caja un papel con una lista de names on 22 May ... But I'm sorry for that and @ s that are being illusions this is a very short time only happens once every four years (roughly, it can sometimes get ahead a little), possibly May 24 newly opened buildings put the bolt for a few months, the Madrid subway Mordor will stay at the height of America, the medieval castle of drywall will disappear just as they appeared and the famous public school model be transformed by the effects of time in a school concert, but that if bilingual ... We are in elections, democratic party, democratic party in which there are all those who are and are not all they are .... But since the risk of sounding naive, I refuse to believe that our politic @ s tod @ s move only by electoral interests and / or staff, I betting on the existence of people rather than political prisoners are city s @ s they respect above all honesty with conciudadan @ sy that the only engine that / as you move is the desire and need to see their towns, cities or communities advance and evolve toward more fair and equal ... is this a dream? I think rather a species threatened with extinction, but this is a theory of mine every day and with good reason loses more appropriate ct @ s ....